tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post113897493252466086..comments2022-04-27T23:07:59.833-04:00Comments on Conversi ad Dominum: Transfiguration--This Soon?Fr John W Fentonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1139078258813793462006-02-04T13:37:00.000-05:002006-02-04T13:37:00.000-05:00Okay, my geography's a bit off. :(But my larger po...Okay, my geography's a bit off. :(<BR/><BR/>But my larger point still remains--that such liturgical customs migrate slowly, and not very evenly; and this may be one evidence of that.Fr John W Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1139074755906906052006-02-04T12:39:00.000-05:002006-02-04T12:39:00.000-05:00But Leipzig is in Saxony, no?It also appears not t...But Leipzig is in Saxony, no?<BR/><BR/>It also appears not to have been celebrated in Magdeburg, near as I can figure out with a quick glance over the Cathedral Book.William Weedonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01383850332591975790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1139065038982127852006-02-04T09:57:00.000-05:002006-02-04T09:57:00.000-05:00Rev McCain,I skimmed through Gunther Stiller's tom...Rev McCain,<BR/><BR/>I skimmed through Gunther Stiller's tome ("Johann Sebastian Bach & Liturgical Life in Leipzig") and noticed the same thing you did. Apparently, Leipzig did not celebrate the Transfiguration at all!<BR/><BR/>My information was gleaned from comments by Paul Z. Strodach and Luther D. Reed. Reed says this:<BR/><BR/>"[S]ince it seemed appropriate as a climax to the Epiphnay season, the reformers Bugenhagen and Veit Dietrich chose [Transfiguration] as the theme for sermons on the Sixth Sunday after Epiphany. Eventually this became the general Lutheran use." (The Lutheran Liturgy, 486)<BR/><BR/>My guess, based on this comment, is that the practice begins in Saxony and (as is common before and outside the codification of Trent) spreads slowly into surrounding regions until it becomes universal. Perhaps Leipzig was one of the last regions to latch onto this custom.<BR/><BR/>Or, perhaps Bach doesn't compose a cantata for this feast because he's already composed one on "Wie schoen leuchtet der Morgenstern" which, I seem to recall, quickly (and most reasonably) was associated with Transfiguration in Lutheran churches.<BR/><BR/>No doubt, however, there are holes in my historical understanding of this unique Lutheran displacement of the feast--holes that I would be pleased if others would help fill.<BR/><BR/>(As an aside, Reed points out that, while the Feast of the Transfiguration has been commemorated in the East since the sixth century, this feast does not become universally celebrated in the West until 1457--less than 30 years before Luther's birth! Perhaps that history also plays into this puzzle.)Fr John W Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1139062803972667352006-02-04T09:20:00.000-05:002006-02-04T09:20:00.000-05:00Pastor Fenton, ok.....I'm stumped. I've been tryin...Pastor Fenton, ok.....I'm stumped. I've been trying to track through the historic church year calendar with J.S. Bach's Cantatas, but alas...I can find not a single cantata composed for the Transfiguration of our Lord by Bach. Was gibt? It would appear that the transfiguration was not commemorated on a Sunday in the Leipzig church in Bach's time. What am I missing?Rev. Paul T. McCainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04846468267196335350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1138986836476400992006-02-03T12:13:00.000-05:002006-02-03T12:13:00.000-05:00Benjamin,If there is a connection, it wouldn't sur...Benjamin,<BR/><BR/>If there is a connection, it wouldn't surprise. There are several due, I believe, to the use of a similiar lectionary. Consider, for example, that both use Mt 21.1-9 for Advent I.<BR/><BR/>Any research someone might bring to bear on this topic would be helpful.Fr John W Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1138983745838578522006-02-03T11:22:00.000-05:002006-02-03T11:22:00.000-05:00Nice blog, Father!Interesting about the Lutheran V...Nice blog, Father!<BR/><BR/>Interesting about the Lutheran VI Sunday after Epiphany. <BR/><BR/>IIRC, propers for the VI Sunday in both the Roman and Anglican rites were added rather late. As to what the Romans did before that, I don't know. The Sarum Use numbered Sundays from <I>after</I> the Octave of the Epiphany, so they wouldn't have had the need for a sixth Sunday.<BR/><BR/>The Roman propers are rather pedestrian (IMHO). The Anglican propers are quite striking (composed by Bishop Cosin), and have an apocalyptic theme (I John 3:1-8 / Matthew 24:23-31): "when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be." <BR/><BR/>These sound like themes related to the Transfiguration; maybe there's a connexion between the Lutheran VI Sunday and the Anglican VI Sunday?D. Benedict Andersen OSBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14666112025416568912noreply@blogger.com