tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post113983669392286319..comments2022-04-27T23:07:59.833-04:00Comments on Conversi ad Dominum: Congregations & ChurchFr John W Fentonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1141075112490335822006-02-27T16:18:00.000-05:002006-02-27T16:18:00.000-05:00Fr Chad,Given the post-1530 redefinition of aposto...Fr Chad,<BR/><BR/><I>Given the post-1530 redefinition of apostolic office and transmission within Confessional Lutheranism, is there any sense of an apostolic succession of order and ministry in terms of 'presbyteral succession,' an unbroken series of ordinations to the presbyterate stretching back to the apostolic age?</I><BR/><BR/>There is a sense of "apostolic succession" within the realm of "presbyterial succession." However it is fading quickly as lay presidency gains headway. What remains is only the notion of succeeding apostolic doctrine. However, that is increasingly redefined in a way that the Reformers, much less the Apostles, would hardly recognize.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Is such a succession maintained in theory or practice by Catholic-minded Lutherans today?</I><BR/><BR/>Regrettably, from my vantage point, much of Lutheranism has become just that--an "-ism" that is highly noetic and theoretical, and barely recognizable in practice.Fr John W Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1140053450128671412006-02-15T20:30:00.000-05:002006-02-15T20:30:00.000-05:00Dear Father:Thank you for your superb and very hel...Dear Father:<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your superb and very helpful response. I count it great blessing that orthodox Anglican Catholics and Evangelical-Lutheran Catholics share so much in matters of faith, tradition, and hermeneutics. Given the post-1530 redefinition of apostolic office and transmission within Confessional Lutheranism, is there any sense of an apostolic succession of order and ministry in terms of 'presbyteral succession,' an unbroken series of ordinations to the presbyterate stretching back to the apostolic age? Is such a succession maintained in theory or practice by Catholic-minded Lutherans today? Thank you again for your kind words and informative answers. God bless you!<BR/><BR/>Father Chandler Jones, SSCThe Most Reverend Chandler Holder Jones, SSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06597996290993316169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1140038347479066762006-02-15T16:19:00.000-05:002006-02-15T16:19:00.000-05:00Fr Chad,It's good to see an SSC member visiting my...Fr Chad,<BR/><BR/>It's good to see an SSC member visiting my blog.<BR/><BR/>To your question: Article XXVIII of the Augsburg Confession (the primary Reformation-era confessional statement for Lutherans) speaks of bishops in the same way as the Lutherans knew them in 1530; i.e., as men who retain and transmit the Apostolic Tradition.<BR/><BR/>Only later, as the episcopal office fades away in Germany and elsewhere (but not Sweden), is "bishop" and "apostolic succession" redefined.<BR/><BR/>In American Lutheranism, this redefinition has led some to state that "every pastor is a bishop" and, in fact, the ordination rites in the LCMS prescribe that the candidate is both ordained and consecrated.<BR/><BR/>The redefinition has also led many to discount completely organic (dare I say, "incarnate") notions of apostolic succession, and so limit the latter term simply to faithfulness in the Scriptures and Lutheran Confessions.<BR/><BR/>At least, that's my read of the history.Fr John W Fentonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1139888440093734542006-02-13T22:40:00.000-05:002006-02-13T22:40:00.000-05:00Excellent post indeed - not being as familiar as I...Excellent post indeed - not being as familiar as I ought with the historical Evangelical-Lutheran position on the subject, I should like to ask how the Confessions define 'bishops' who transmit and hold the Apostolic Tradition?<BR/><BR/>Thank you for this splendid blog. I am enjoying it immensely. <BR/>God bless you!<BR/><BR/>Father Chandler Jones, SSCThe Most Reverend Chandler Holder Jones, SSChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06597996290993316169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21841592.post-1139855082921354842006-02-13T13:24:00.000-05:002006-02-13T13:24:00.000-05:00Fr Fenton,Amen, Amen, Amen!Great post. I have lin...Fr Fenton,<BR/><BR/>Amen, Amen, Amen!<BR/><BR/>Great post. I have linked to it from my weblog, so that all three or four of my readers can see this.<BR/><BR/>ChrisChris Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03220498656377282715noreply@blogger.com